{"id":6996,"date":"2015-02-26T10:00:56","date_gmt":"2015-02-26T14:00:56","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/archive.candrsenal.com\/?p=6996"},"modified":"2020-08-19T15:12:28","modified_gmt":"2020-08-19T20:12:28","slug":"a-quick-and-dirty-guide-the-french-chassepot-and-gras","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/2015\/02\/26\/a-quick-and-dirty-guide-the-french-chassepot-and-gras\/","title":{"rendered":"A Quick and Dirty Guide: The French Chassepot and Gras"},"content":{"rendered":"\r\n\r\n\r\n

\"\"All right, I know a lot of you don’t pay too much attention to French guns but that makes this guide all the handier!\u00a0 The Chassepot and Gras are kissing cousins, so it’s easiest to list them together.\u00a0 Hopefully this list will help sort out these extremely similar rifles.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Infantry Rifle 1866<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Fusil Mod\u00e8le 1866<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\r\n

\"\"<\/p>\r\n

<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n51.4\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n31.7\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n9.0 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11mm Paper<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

With breech loading rifles becoming standard in warfare, the French turned to Antoine Chassepot’s bolt action rifle for broad adoption.\u00a0 This early design uses a needle-fire system to pierce a paper cartridge and seals with a rubber ring.\u00a0 These were the standard arm of the Franco-Prussian War and, with modification, would stay on the battlefield through WWI!<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

These were fitted with a saber bayonet just like the Remington’s with a 22.5″ blade.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Rifle 1866 for African Cavalry<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Fusil Mod\u00e8le 1866 pour la Cavalerie<\/em><\/h3>\r\n

\"\"<\/p>\r\n

<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n51.4\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n31.7\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n9.0 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11mm Paper<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

This modified rifle was never an official design but was made and issued in significant numbers.\u00a0 These were conversions of the original 1866 for mounted troops in the colonies, particularly Africa.\u00a0 The most outstanding feature is that the rear sling swivel was moved to in front of the trigger guard with a cross piece fitted into the stock to retain it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

It uses the same 1866 saber bayonet.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Cavalry Carbine 1866<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Carabine de Cavalerie Mod\u00e8le 1866\"\"<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n46.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n27.6\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.7 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11mm Paper<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

An official shortened Chassepot for mounted use.\u00a0 Features a sling point in the trigger guard and does not fit a bayonet.\u00a0 This is because the cavalry would already have swords.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Mounted Gendarmes Carbine 1866<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Carabine de Gendarmerie a Cheval Mod\u00e8le 1866<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n46.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n27.6\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.8 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11mm Paper<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

This carbine is actually identical to the cavalry model.\u00a0 Really, no difference that we can find.\u00a0 Except it was issued with a cruciform socket bayonet.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

There are likely serial ranges to these guns but unfortunately we were unable to find any just yet. \u00a0So we really don\u2019t know just how to distinguish it from the cavalry.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Gendarmes Carbine 1866<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Carabine de Gendarmerie a Pied Mod\u00e8le 1866<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n46.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n27.6\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.8 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11mm Paper<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Same length and rough weight as the previous model, this was reworked for military police units who didn’t get any horses.\u00a0 The fittings are slightly changed but the big difference is that this model does not take a socket bayonet, rather the 1866 sabre model instead.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Artillery Musketoon 1866<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Mousqueton d’Artillerie Mod\u00e8le 1866<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n39\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n20.1\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11mm Paper<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Further modification of the Gendarmes Carbine, this is an even shorter and handier gun for use by artillery and other specialty troops.\u00a0 Again, it features a bayonet mount for the 1866 sabre.\u00a0 This is a particularly rare model as fewer were made before the jump to the 1874.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Infantry Rifle 1874<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Fusil Mod\u00e8le 1874<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n51.4\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n32.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n9.3 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

In response to the German adoption of the metallic cartridge firing Mauser 1871, the French took up the work of Basile Gras to upgrade the Chassepot.\u00a0 This new \u201cGras\u201d rifle was much the same, although now firing an 11mm metallic cartridge with the help of an improved bolt.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

\u00a0<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Infantry Rifle 1866-74<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Fusil Mod\u00e8le 1866-74\"\"<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n51.4\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n32.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n9.3 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

The 1874 rifle was designed from the notion that the existing Chassepot rifles could be converted and so they were.\u00a0 After being worked over, these are nearly identical to the Model 1874\u2019s and so only the markings on the left rail tell the difference.\u00a0 This is applied to all models of rifles, carbines, and musketoons.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

There are two variations, the “Model T” which used a sleeved barrel and the “Model N” which receive a new-made barrel.\u00a0 These were paired with either the new 1874 bayonet or the old 1866, which are interchangeable.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Cavalry Carbine 1874<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Carabine de Cavalerie Mod\u00e8le 1874<\/em><\/h3>\r\n

\"\"<\/p>\r\n

<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n46.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n27.6\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.8 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

The French enjoyed their Cavalry, Mounted Police, Foot Police, and Artillery versions of the Chassepot and kept them on the Gras.\u00a0 So this is the equivalent Cavalry Carbine.\u00a0 While most of these will be near-identical outside of the bolt, this carbine actually has a slightly different front band from its precursor.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Again, no bayonet was provided with this model.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Cavalry Carbine 1866-74<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Carabine de Cavalerie Mod\u00e8le 1866-74<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n46.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n27.6\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.8 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

All of these 1866-74 variations will be very hard to tell from the 1874 versions without close inspection.\u00a0 Luckily the French were great about marking them down the left side of the receiver.\u00a0 This updated carbine mirrors the one above.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Mounted Gendarmes Carbine 1874\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Carabine de Gendarmerie a Cheval\u00a0 Mod\u00e8le 1874<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n46.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n27.6\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.9 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

The mounted police refreshed their carbine.\u00a0 Again it was fitted with the cruciform bayonet but this time the blade sits on the other side of the rifle.\u00a0 Not entirely sure what the reason was for the change.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Mounted Gendarmes Carbine 1866-74<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Carabine de Gendarmerie a Cheval\u00a0 Mod\u00e8le 1866-74<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n46.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n27.6\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.9 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Not a lot to cover here, another 1866 updated to mirror the carbine above.\u00a0 Check the markings on the left of the receiver.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Gendarmes Carbine 1874<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Carabine de Gendarmerie a Pied\u00a0 Mod\u00e8le 1874<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n46.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n27.6\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.9 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Police on foot received the same pattern gun all over again with an improved Gras action.\u00a0 These guns were not paired with the new 1874 bayonet and retained the 1866 sabers.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Gendarmes Carbine 1866-74<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Carabine de Gendarmerie a Pied\u00a0 Mod\u00e8le 1866-74<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n46.3\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n27.6\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.9 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

An updated Chassepot to mirror the gun above.\u00a0 Check the receiver markings.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Artillery Musketoon 1874<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Mousqueton d’Artillerie\u00a0 Mod\u00e8le 1874<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n39\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n20.1\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.2 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Once more, the Artillery troops took up the handiest sized rifle.\u00a0 These musketoons were just as before but with the improved Gras action.\u00a0 They also retained the 1866 saber bayonet.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Artillery Musketoon 1866-74<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Mousqueton d’Artillerie\u00a0 Mod\u00e8le 1866-74<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n39\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n20.1\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.2 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11x59mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

The pattern should be apparent by now.\u00a0 This is just a Chassepot reworked to clone the model above.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Modification of 1880<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

The updated Chassepot and Gras rifles had one major problem: poor gas mitigation.\u00a0 Ruptured casings were causing major issues for shooters and so in 1880 a fresh channel was made in the bolt to help remedy the situation.\u00a0 Model 1874 or 1866-74’s will be marked “M80” on the left of the receiver if updated to this pattern.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Rifle Modification of 1914<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Fusil Mod\u00e8le 1874 M80 M14\u00a0<\/em><\/h3>\r\n
\"\"<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n51.4\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n31.7\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n?<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n8x50mmR<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Shortages early in WWI made the French desperate for weapons chambering the standard 8mm cartridge.\u00a0 The 11mm barrels were replaced but the slightly modified actions remained single-shot shoulder lockers.\u00a0 In order to allow the continued use of both the 1866 and 1874 bayonets, a sleeve was made from the original barrel and sits over the new one until the base of the forward barrel band.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Now, donor models for this conversion included the 1866-74, 1866-74 M80, 1874, and 1874 M80, so markings may vary!\u00a0 Amazingly these guns remained in storage into the 1930’s as some have been noted with updated “N” stampings for the improved 8mm cartridge and parkerizing\/black paint finish!<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

German Modified Carbine 1871<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

Aptierter Chassepot-Karabiner Modell 1871<\/em><\/h3>\r\n

\"\"<\/p>\r\n

<\/figure>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Length<\/th>\r\n39.2\u2033<\/td>\r\nBarrel Length<\/th>\r\n20.5\u2033<\/td>\r\nWeight<\/th>\r\n7.8 lbs<\/td>\r\nCartridge<\/th>\r\n11\u00d760mm<\/td>\r\n<\/tr>\r\n<\/tbody>\r\n<\/table>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

During the Franco-Prussian War the Dreyse needle rifle was showing some limitations.\u00a0 Prussian Cavalry were actually favoring captured French carbines and were even shortening French long rifles and using captured ammo.\u00a0 Shortly after, the adoption of the 1871 Mauser was moving quickly, but no where near quick enough for arsenals to provide a standard carbine on the action.\u00a0 So the Prussians turned, again, to the Chassepot.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n

In 1874 they began boring and sleeving the barrels in 11mm Mauser and modifying the actions to metallic fire.\u00a0 The guns were shortened and fitted with a snub-nose cap.\u00a0 These were issued widely to cavalry and as 1871 carbines became available they were pushed further down the line of special units, ultimately ending up with the Landstrum last.<\/p>\r\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

All right, I know a lot of you don’t pay too much attention to French guns but that makes this guide all the handier!\u00a0 The Chassepot and Gras are kissing cousins, so it’s easiest to list them together.\u00a0 Hopefully this list will help sort out these extremely similar rifles.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":7335,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"off","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[89,53,60,36],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6996","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-content","category-qandd-guides","category-text","category-article"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6996","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6996"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6996\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":16491,"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6996\/revisions\/16491"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/7335"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6996"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6996"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/surplused.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6996"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}